Any suggestions for resolving this problem as painlessly and
cooperatively as possible will be appreciated...
I just had an electrician run a indoor/outdoor cat5e from my office (in
an adjacent building) to the basement of my home.
I asked him to run the cable to a particular area in the basement and
then leave me 20ft of cable so I feed the line upstairs to a small
patch panel and router in a closet.
Attempting to be helpful, he brought the line into the house and cut it
off at the fusebox -- far short of where I needed the line. Apparently
he thought that I should have the patch-panel and router there.
(Of course, the panel and router won't fit in the cabinet that
surrounds the fusebox, and there are no nearby outlets to power the
router....)
Do I need a special splice or other device to extend the cat5e? (I hate
to make him rerun the whole line -- burying it tore up my yard and made
a real mess of things.)
Also, I think this guy is a competent electrician, but I question his
networking skills. In my office space, he hooked up two RJ-45 jacks in
parallel. (I'm not an expert... and I correct in thinking that each
line has to independent and connected by a hub/switch device?)
Can anyone suggest a resource for this guy...? Maybe a cheat-sheet for
him to get up to speed on ethernet cabling so he can fix the jack
problem?
Thanks! -Queue
P.S. Critical comments about the electrician are not helpful - I live
in a smaller close-knit community where cooperation in working out
problems is valued over angry words and threats.
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Extending cat5e - Help!
12 posts
• Page 1 of 1
Re: Extending cat5e - Help!
by Perkowski » Sun Aug 07, 2005 3:20 am
Queue wrote:
Than go buy yourself a patch cord that will reach whereever you are.
thats the easiest way, not the right way though. the right way is to
repull the whole run again!
Any suggestions for resolving this problem as painlessly and
cooperatively as possible will be appreciated...
I just had an electrician run a indoor/outdoor cat5e from my office (in
an adjacent building) to the basement of my home.
I asked him to run the cable to a particular area in the basement and
then leave me 20ft of cable so I feed the line upstairs to a small
patch panel and router in a closet.
Attempting to be helpful, he brought the line into the house and cut it
off at the fusebox -- far short of where I needed the line. Apparently
he thought that I should have the patch-panel and router there.
(Of course, the panel and router won't fit in the cabinet that
surrounds the fusebox, and there are no nearby outlets to power the
router....)
Do I need a special splice or other device to extend the cat5e? (I hate
to make him rerun the whole line -- burying it tore up my yard and made
a real mess of things.)
Also, I think this guy is a competent electrician, but I question his
networking skills. In my office space, he hooked up two RJ-45 jacks in
parallel. (I'm not an expert... and I correct in thinking that each
line has to independent and connected by a hub/switch device?)
Can anyone suggest a resource for this guy...? Maybe a cheat-sheet for
him to get up to speed on ethernet cabling so he can fix the jack
problem?
Thanks! -Queue
P.S. Critical comments about the electrician are not helpful - I live
in a smaller close-knit community where cooperation in working out
problems is valued over angry words and threats.
Well, tell him to terminate that line to a bisquit jack down there.
Than go buy yourself a patch cord that will reach whereever you are.
thats the easiest way, not the right way though. the right way is to
repull the whole run again!
- Perkowski
Re: Extending cat5e - Help!
by Robert Redelmeier » Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:20 am
Queue <cloy@tobola.com> wrote:
This is _very_ bad practice. Any nearby lightening strike will
impose ground differentials that will fry equipment at both ends.
You can install a small surface mount jack, and plug
in a 20 ft patchcord.
No, you cannot daisy-chain RJ-45s! Not with ethernet
anyways. You can, however, share a sheath and use two
pair to each RJ45. There are different ways to do this,
some less ugly than others.
-- Robert
I just had an electrician run a indoor/outdoor cat5e from my
office (in an adjacent building) to the basement of my home.
This is _very_ bad practice. Any nearby lightening strike will
impose ground differentials that will fry equipment at both ends.
I asked him to run the cable to a particular area in the
basement and then leave me 20ft of cable so I feed the line
upstairs to a small patch panel and router in a closet.
Attempting to be helpful, he brought the line into the
house and cut it off at the fusebox -- far short of where
You can install a small surface mount jack, and plug
in a 20 ft patchcord.
I question his networking skills. In my office space,
he hooked up two RJ-45 jacks in parallel. (I'm not an
expert... and I correct in thinking that each line has to
independent and connected by a hub/switch device?)
No, you cannot daisy-chain RJ-45s! Not with ethernet
anyways. You can, however, share a sheath and use two
pair to each RJ45. There are different ways to do this,
some less ugly than others.
-- Robert
- Robert Redelmeier
Re: Extending cat5e - Help!
by Queue » Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:00 pm
Robert Redelmeier wrote:
Can you tell me more about this? The cable is heavy indoor/outdoor,
protected in side a conduit and buried about a foot underground.
How could this be done differently?
Thanks! -Cloy
Queue <cloy@tobola.com> wrote:
I just had an electrician run a indoor/outdoor cat5e from my
office (in an adjacent building) to the basement of my home.
This is _very_ bad practice. Any nearby lightening strike will
impose ground differentials that will fry equipment at both ends.
Can you tell me more about this? The cable is heavy indoor/outdoor,
protected in side a conduit and buried about a foot underground.
How could this be done differently?
Thanks! -Cloy
- Queue
Re: Extending cat5e - Help!
by Perkowski » Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:20 pm
Queue wrote:
electrically bonded/grounded. If a lighting bolt strike say a tree near
the wire it could get onto the wire and fry out your equipment.
Robert Redelmeier wrote:
Queue <cloy@tobola.com> wrote:
I just had an electrician run a indoor/outdoor cat5e from my
office (in an adjacent building) to the basement of my home.
This is _very_ bad practice. Any nearby lightening strike will
impose ground differentials that will fry equipment at both ends.
Can you tell me more about this? The cable is heavy indoor/outdoor,
protected in side a conduit and buried about a foot underground.
How could this be done differently?
Thanks! -Cloy
Basically, the cable should be buried deeper per NEC code and should be
electrically bonded/grounded. If a lighting bolt strike say a tree near
the wire it could get onto the wire and fry out your equipment.
- Perkowski
Re: Extending cat5e - Help!
by David Lesher » Sun Aug 07, 2005 9:31 pm
"Queue" <cloy@tobola.com> writes:
By using fiber. You are running between different power/MGN neutrals.
I'd get a set of 10/100 UTP<->Fiber tranceivers and a length of fiber.
Use them at the "short" end; that gets you ground-loop proofing....
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
I just had an electrician run a indoor/outdoor cat5e from my
office (in an adjacent building) to the basement of my home.
This is _very_ bad practice. Any nearby lightening strike will
impose ground differentials that will fry equipment at both ends.
Can you tell me more about this? The cable is heavy indoor/outdoor,
protected in side a conduit and buried about a foot underground.
How could this be done differently?
By using fiber. You are running between different power/MGN neutrals.
I'd get a set of 10/100 UTP<->Fiber tranceivers and a length of fiber.
Use them at the "short" end; that gets you ground-loop proofing....
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
- David Lesher
Re: Extending cat5e - Help!
by James Knott » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:20 am
David Lesher wrote:
How do you get a ground loop, with copper pairs, when there's no ground
connection at either end?
I'd get a set of 10/100 UTP<->Fiber tranceivers and a length of fiber.
Use them at the "short" end; that gets you ground-loop proofing....
How do you get a ground loop, with copper pairs, when there's no ground
connection at either end?
- James Knott
Re: Extending cat5e - Help!
by Robert Redelmeier » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:20 am
Queue <cloy@tobola.com> wrote:
It doesn't matter how good the cable, or how deep it's buried.
During a nearby lightening strike ground potentials are not
the same. There's a pattern of high ground potential near the
strink dropping off to lower ones further away. Typically kV/m
but it won't be linear. I'd roughly say any strink within 100m
(or 3x groundstake separation) will cause trouble.
Lets say lightening hits a tree [electrically] closer to building
A than building B. The groundstake on building A goes to a higher
voltage than the groundstake on building B. Your interbuilding
Cat5 becomes a tempting path to relieve this differential, and
anything in the way can get fried. The ethernet transceivers have
500V isolation, but that's nothing when talking about lightening.
With fiber. An alternative (if you can find them) is Cat5 service
entrance protectors, properly bonded to each building's ground.
-- Robert
Robert Redelmeier wrote:
This is _very_ bad practice. Any nearby lightening strike will
impose ground differentials that will fry equipment at both ends.
Can you tell me more about this? The cable is heavy indoor/outdoor,
protected in side a conduit and buried about a foot underground.
It doesn't matter how good the cable, or how deep it's buried.
During a nearby lightening strike ground potentials are not
the same. There's a pattern of high ground potential near the
strink dropping off to lower ones further away. Typically kV/m
but it won't be linear. I'd roughly say any strink within 100m
(or 3x groundstake separation) will cause trouble.
Lets say lightening hits a tree [electrically] closer to building
A than building B. The groundstake on building A goes to a higher
voltage than the groundstake on building B. Your interbuilding
Cat5 becomes a tempting path to relieve this differential, and
anything in the way can get fried. The ethernet transceivers have
500V isolation, but that's nothing when talking about lightening.
How could this be done differently?
With fiber. An alternative (if you can find them) is Cat5 service
entrance protectors, properly bonded to each building's ground.
-- Robert
- Robert Redelmeier
Re: Extending cat5e - Help!
by David Lesher » Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:01 pm
James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> writes:
Robert Redelmeier did an excellent job of laying out the issue in
his response. The issue is, the card's transceivers have isolation
breakdown voltage of 1500V, I believe. {He said 500..]
That's warm spit when talking out lightning; 500KV might be a good
safe standoff potential.
If you have
BLDG_A BLDG_B
ROUTER==========[a]----------------------------[b]=======ROUTER
where == is UTP cable and -- is fiber, and [ ] is a UTP<->Fiber
transceiver, then the differential is the across fiber, period
My suggestion was not as good:
ROUTER====[a']--[b']=================================SWITCH====ROUTER"
as the power for the b' transceiver comes from the A supply. BUT,
the most likely thing to happen is the b' box goes to the Great eBay
in the Sky. You should make SWITCH something expendable as well..
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
David Lesher wrote:
I'd get a set of 10/100 UTP<->Fiber transceivers and a length of fiber.
Use them at the "short" end; that gets you ground-loop proofing....
How do you get a ground loop, with copper pairs, when there's no ground
connection at either end?
Robert Redelmeier did an excellent job of laying out the issue in
his response. The issue is, the card's transceivers have isolation
breakdown voltage of 1500V, I believe. {He said 500..]
That's warm spit when talking out lightning; 500KV might be a good
safe standoff potential.
If you have
BLDG_A BLDG_B
ROUTER==========[a]----------------------------[b]=======ROUTER
where == is UTP cable and -- is fiber, and [ ] is a UTP<->Fiber
transceiver, then the differential is the across fiber, period
My suggestion was not as good:
ROUTER====[a']--[b']=================================SWITCH====ROUTER"
as the power for the b' transceiver comes from the A supply. BUT,
the most likely thing to happen is the b' box goes to the Great eBay
in the Sky. You should make SWITCH something expendable as well..
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
- David Lesher
Re: Extending cat5e - Help!
by James Knott » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:20 pm
David Lesher wrote:
I never said there wasn't a problem, but a ground loop isn't it. A ground
loop is a problem with a circuit that's grounded at more than one point, so
that the difference in ground potential produce noise or harmful currents.
If you don't have at least two ground points, you can't have ground loops.
With UTP ethernet, you have no ground points. Also, it's entirely possible
to have lightning induced problems, without ground loops or even a single
ground connection.
How do you get a ground loop, with copper pairs, when there's no ground
connection at either end?
Robert Redelmeier did an excellent job of laying out the issue in
his response. The issue is, the card's transceivers have isolation
breakdown voltage of 1500V, I believe. {He said 500..]
That's warm spit when talking out lightning; 500KV might be a good
safe standoff potential.
I never said there wasn't a problem, but a ground loop isn't it. A ground
loop is a problem with a circuit that's grounded at more than one point, so
that the difference in ground potential produce noise or harmful currents.
If you don't have at least two ground points, you can't have ground loops.
With UTP ethernet, you have no ground points. Also, it's entirely possible
to have lightning induced problems, without ground loops or even a single
ground connection.
- James Knott
Re: Extending cat5e - Help!
by RC » Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:59 am
Simple solution is lightning protection on both ends, should be able to pick
it up anywhere that sells commercial cabling. Just make sure the fuses are
for DATA not analog voice. I've seen this save a lot on equipment. And keep
some extra fuses handy.
Fiber is better, but this works without repulling the cable. Also it will
provide a punk-down point for extending the cable from the fuse box area. If
fact it works better that it's near the fuse box since you need to ground
the lightning protector and your building ground is probably right there.
"Robert Redelmeier" <redelm@ev1.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:wdIJe.749$A86.48@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
it up anywhere that sells commercial cabling. Just make sure the fuses are
for DATA not analog voice. I've seen this save a lot on equipment. And keep
some extra fuses handy.
Fiber is better, but this works without repulling the cable. Also it will
provide a punk-down point for extending the cable from the fuse box area. If
fact it works better that it's near the fuse box since you need to ground
the lightning protector and your building ground is probably right there.
"Robert Redelmeier" <redelm@ev1.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:wdIJe.749$A86.48@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
Queue <cloy@tobola.com> wrote:
Robert Redelmeier wrote:
This is _very_ bad practice. Any nearby lightening strike will
impose ground differentials that will fry equipment at both ends.
Can you tell me more about this? The cable is heavy indoor/outdoor,
protected in side a conduit and buried about a foot underground.
It doesn't matter how good the cable, or how deep it's buried.
During a nearby lightening strike ground potentials are not
the same. There's a pattern of high ground potential near the
strink dropping off to lower ones further away. Typically kV/m
but it won't be linear. I'd roughly say any strink within 100m
(or 3x groundstake separation) will cause trouble.
Lets say lightening hits a tree [electrically] closer to building
A than building B. The groundstake on building A goes to a higher
voltage than the groundstake on building B. Your interbuilding
Cat5 becomes a tempting path to relieve this differential, and
anything in the way can get fried. The ethernet transceivers have
500V isolation, but that's nothing when talking about lightening.
How could this be done differently?
With fiber. An alternative (if you can find them) is Cat5 service
entrance protectors, properly bonded to each building's ground.
-- Robert
- RC
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