| Author |
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sphealey
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:25 pm Post subject:
Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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Trying to patch a bad situation for a few months until we can get a
fiber contractor into our semi-rural mfg facility. Is there anything
faster than 10 Mb that I can run over Thinnet cable? It doesn't have
to be standard or even Ethernet as I only need to connect 2 ends for a
short period of time.
Thanks.
sPh |
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jpd
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 12:30 am Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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Begin <1108751122.984684.275860@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
On 2005-02-18, sphealey <sphealey@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Trying to patch a bad situation for a few months until we can get a
fiber contractor into our semi-rural mfg facility. Is there anything
faster than 10 Mb that I can run over Thinnet cable? It doesn't have
to be standard or even Ethernet as I only need to connect 2 ends for a
short period of time.
|
Telco equipment, like DS3, E3, or T3 linecards, but it expects 75 Ohm
(RG59) instead of 50 Ohm (RG58) cable. It is rather expensive unless you
can pick up second hand stuff cheaply, or borrow stuff. Oh, and you'll
need two cables, not just one.
--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l . |
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Jonathan Sturges
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:19 am Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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sphealey wrote:
| Quote: | Trying to patch a bad situation for a few months until we can get a
fiber contractor into our semi-rural mfg facility. Is there anything
faster than 10 Mb that I can run over Thinnet cable? It doesn't have
to be standard or even Ethernet as I only need to connect 2 ends for a
short period of time.
Thanks.
sPh
|
Can you go wireless? You didn't say what the distance was, or if there
were obstructions that would make this impossible. Depending on
distance and many other factors, you might be able to get real-world
speeds better than 10Mpbs using 802.11a or 802.11g.
You can use Ethernet-to-wireless bridges for non-wireless-capable
equipment too.
Good luck,
Jonathan |
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sphealey
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:37 am Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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| Quote: | Trying to patch a bad situation for a few months until we can get a
fiber contractor into our semi-rural mfg facility. Is there
anything
faster than 10 Mb that I can run over Thinnet cable?
Can you go wireless? You didn't say what the distance was, or if
there
were obstructions that would make this impossible.
|
Good thought, but I truely doubt wireless would work in that
facility/environment.
sPh |
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J. Clarke
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:56 am Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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sphealey wrote:
| Quote: | Trying to patch a bad situation for a few months until we can get a
fiber contractor into our semi-rural mfg facility. Is there
anything
faster than 10 Mb that I can run over Thinnet cable?
Can you go wireless? You didn't say what the distance was, or if
there
were obstructions that would make this impossible.
Good thought, but I truely doubt wireless would work in that
facility/environment.
|
In principle you could with suitable fittings use the Thinnet cable to carry
the wifi signal. I've never heard of it being tried but it would be an
interesting experiment.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:19 am Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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"sphealey" <sphealey@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
| Quote: | faster than 10 Mb that I can run over Thinnet cable?
|
I'd get a couple of WiFi devices and see if I could couple them to the
cable. Depending on their specs and the cable length you might want
to add some attenuators, but it might work to just get coax
adapters... |
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J. Clarke
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:37 am Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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William P.N. Smith wrote:
| Quote: | "sphealey" <sphealey@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
faster than 10 Mb that I can run over Thinnet cable?
I'd get a couple of WiFi devices and see if I could couple them to the
cable. Depending on their specs and the cable length you might want
to add some attenuators, but it might work to just get coax
adapters...
|
Something I should have mentioned--be careful with the wifi boards if you do
that--some of the connectors are remarkably fragile--I've had a couple of
them pull right out of the board just hooking up an antenna
cable--fortunately it's just the ferrule--shoving it back on hard with a
little epoxy seems to take care of the problem as long as you don't put any
strain on them, although I wouldn't vouch for the impedence being right.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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Daniel J McDonald
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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In article <1108751122.984684.275860@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
sphealey <sphealey@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Trying to patch a bad situation for a few months until we can get a
fiber contractor into our semi-rural mfg facility. Is there anything
faster than 10 Mb that I can run over Thinnet cable? It doesn't have
to be standard or even Ethernet as I only need to connect 2 ends for a
short period of time.
|
back in about '91 DEC made an FDDI over coax converter. I don't know if
you could find one of those anymore.
I've got a span of coax running out of a power plant, with no way to
re-run fiber in the path (the active bus off the generator is in the same
cabletray), so if you find anything that works, let me know ;-)
--
Daniel J McDonald CCIE # 2495, CNX
Visit my website: http://www.austinnetworkdesign.com |
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Gerard Bok
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:34 pm Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:56:42 -0500, "J. Clarke"
<jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | sphealey wrote:
Trying to patch a bad situation for a few months until we can get a
fiber contractor into our semi-rural mfg facility. Is there
anything
faster than 10 Mb that I can run over Thinnet cable?
Can you go wireless? You didn't say what the distance was, or if
there
were obstructions that would make this impossible.
Good thought, but I truely doubt wireless would work in that
facility/environment.
In principle you could with suitable fittings use the Thinnet cable to carry
the wifi signal.
|
No. You would not.
Your thinnet cable is designed for 10 MHz operation and is
practically useless above say 100 MHz.
Wifi operates at 2400 MHz. So go figure :-)
--
Kind regards,
Gerard Bok |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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bok118@zonnet.nl (Gerard Bok) wrote:
| Quote: | Your thinnet cable is designed for 10 MHz operation and is
practically useless above say 100 MHz.
Wifi operates at 2400 MHz. So go figure :-)
|
So you're saying that the OP's cable has more than (say) 120dB loss at
2.4GHz? Even without knowing the cable type or length?
Belden 9907, for instance, has 14.8dB loss per 100 feet at 1GHz... |
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J. Clarke
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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Gerard Bok wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:56:42 -0500, "J. Clarke"
jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
sphealey wrote:
Trying to patch a bad situation for a few months until we can get a
fiber contractor into our semi-rural mfg facility. Is there
anything
faster than 10 Mb that I can run over Thinnet cable?
Can you go wireless? You didn't say what the distance was, or if
there
were obstructions that would make this impossible.
Good thought, but I truely doubt wireless would work in that
facility/environment.
In principle you could with suitable fittings use the Thinnet cable to
carry the wifi signal.
No. You would not.
Your thinnet cable is designed for 10 MHz operation and is
practically useless above say 100 MHz.
Wifi operates at 2400 MHz. So go figure :-)
|
ROF,L. If your source for that information is a book, burn it. If it's a
teacher, drop the class. If it's your boss, be very afraid.
Thinnet cable is typically RG-58 coax, which is an RF cable _rated_ for over
a GHz and capable of carrying a good deal more than that with reasonable
attenuation.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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Al Dykes
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:38 pm Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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In article <v7he11ho7ei40shpgfduqkbf4smhmjpnje@4ax.com>,
<William P.N. Smith> wrote:
| Quote: | bok118@zonnet.nl (Gerard Bok) wrote:
Your thinnet cable is designed for 10 MHz operation and is
practically useless above say 100 MHz.
Wifi operates at 2400 MHz. So go figure :-)
So you're saying that the OP's cable has more than (say) 120dB loss at
2.4GHz? Even without knowing the cable type or length?
Belden 9907, for instance, has 14.8dB loss per 100 feet at 1GHz...
|
The belden spec tops out at 1GHz. It's going to be lots gigher at
2.4Ghz. A google for generic RG58 found 1.1DB/m at 2GHz. It could be
wrong.
I looked that up for a query about a 600ft/200M run, which I think the
path loss (maybe 200DB down) rules a WiFi hack for that user.
It's possible that for some path that's not a clear shot (say indoors)
for WiFI, or slightly outside the WiFI range (say 300 Ft) the
radio-over-coax might work. A max-length TW run seems to be beyond
the reach of a WiFI radio.
Since the OP has 10Mb/sec TW ethernet running "b" wifi isn't as fast.
It would have to be "g", which is in the same RF band.
--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. |
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Gerard Bok
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:03:03 -0500, William P.N. Smith wrote:
| Quote: | bok118@zonnet.nl (Gerard Bok) wrote:
Your thinnet cable is designed for 10 MHz operation and is
practically useless above say 100 MHz.
Wifi operates at 2400 MHz. So go figure :-)
So you're saying that the OP's cable has more than (say) 120dB loss at
2.4GHz? Even without knowing the cable type or length?
|
What I am saying is, that for Wifi frequencies a Pringle can
probably outperforms any thinnet cable :-)
--
Kind regards,
Gerard Bok |
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Gerard Bok
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:19:19 -0500, "J. Clarke"
<jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | Gerard Bok wrote:
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:56:42 -0500, "J. Clarke"
jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
sphealey wrote:
Trying to patch a bad situation for a few months until we can get a
fiber contractor into our semi-rural mfg facility. Is there
anything
faster than 10 Mb that I can run over Thinnet cable?
Can you go wireless? You didn't say what the distance was, or if
there
were obstructions that would make this impossible.
Good thought, but I truely doubt wireless would work in that
facility/environment.
In principle you could with suitable fittings use the Thinnet cable to
carry the wifi signal.
No. You would not.
Your thinnet cable is designed for 10 MHz operation and is
practically useless above say 100 MHz.
Wifi operates at 2400 MHz. So go figure :-)
ROF,L. If your source for that information is a book, burn it. If it's a
teacher, drop the class. If it's your boss, be very afraid.
|
It's even worse than you imagine :-)
| Quote: | Thinnet cable is typically RG-58 coax, which is an RF cable _rated_ for over
a GHz and capable of carrying a good deal more than that with reasonable
attenuation.
|
I am talking about the stuff that typically came out of the box
labeled 'thinnet cable'. Typical specs:
RG58 c/u
capacity 93.5 pf/m
attenuation at 100 MHz 174 dB/km (= 278 dB per mile)
In my opinion you cannot even characterize this stuff at 2.4 GHz
as its behavour is no longer that of a 'coaxial cable'.
I would imagine that you could even get better performance if you
just connect a single wire; either the core or the shield.
--
Kind regards,
Gerard Bok |
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J. Clarke
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:36 pm Post subject:
Re: Anything faster I can run on Thinnet? |
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Gerard Bok wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:19:19 -0500, "J. Clarke"
jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
Gerard Bok wrote:
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:56:42 -0500, "J. Clarke"
jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
sphealey wrote:
Trying to patch a bad situation for a few months until we can get a
fiber contractor into our semi-rural mfg facility. Is there
anything
faster than 10 Mb that I can run over Thinnet cable?
Can you go wireless? You didn't say what the distance was, or if
there
were obstructions that would make this impossible.
Good thought, but I truely doubt wireless would work in that
facility/environment.
In principle you could with suitable fittings use the Thinnet cable to
carry the wifi signal.
No. You would not.
Your thinnet cable is designed for 10 MHz operation and is
practically useless above say 100 MHz.
Wifi operates at 2400 MHz. So go figure :-)
ROF,L. If your source for that information is a book, burn it. If it's a
teacher, drop the class. If it's your boss, be very afraid.
It's even worse than you imagine :-)
Thinnet cable is typically RG-58 coax, which is an RF cable _rated_ for
over a GHz and capable of carrying a good deal more than that with
reasonable attenuation.
I am talking about the stuff that typically came out of the box
labeled 'thinnet cable'. Typical specs:
RG58 c/u
capacity 93.5 pf/m
attenuation at 100 MHz 174 dB/km (= 278 dB per mile)
In my opinion you cannot even characterize this stuff at 2.4 GHz
as its behavour is no longer that of a 'coaxial cable'.
I would imagine that you could even get better performance if you
just connect a single wire; either the core or the shield.
|
I fail to see your point. Belden Thinnet cable, purpose made, is rated for
16 dB/100 feet at 1 GHz. Their RG58 is rated 14-22 depending on which
particular variety. 1671A, a purpose-made microwave cable rated to 20 GHz,
has 19.4, 1672A, a purpose-made high-frequency video cable, has 26.
Now you can "imagine" anything you want to but in the real world cables with
that performance have been carrying signals in those frequency ranges for
decades.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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