DComTalk.com

Victor · Guest

Hello all,

I need some advice on broadband choice, between T1 and DSL. I know
that they both have their own adv and disadv.

But, let me describe the situation,

"We currently have two buildings with around 600-700 residents. We are
only able to provide around 240 DSL users, and of course, the waiting
list is pretty long. We are expecting to increase our service to
another 144 new users. The people who are in charge are purchasing
more modems because of it."

Now, I wonder, what's the max # of users DSL can provide? How about
T1? What's its max # of users?

The building will need re-wiring of course, will it worth to invest in
T1? The first installation will cost some amount of money.

So far, we have spent around 60K, and are expecting to spend another
30K on another 144 new users. Will migrating to T1 help?

Well, in the end, my team and I need some convincing reason to
convince telecommunication office to migrate to T1.

Thank you all,

Victor

Robert Redelmeier · Guest

In comp.dcom.xdsl Victor <mr526@yahoo.com> wrote:

David H. Lipman · Guest

Neither ! (unless you can get multiple VDSL circuits)

You should get two T3 (DS3 -- which is equiv. to ~28 T1 lines ) and inverse multiplex that
into sub-channels. One for each building with each sub-channel based upon a multiple, of
your choice of 64K. Then each sub-channel should go to a NAT device to serve X number of
residents.

A T1 is symmetrical 1.5Mb/s and you can't divide that 700 ways. Assuming worse case, each
residence would be worse of than 2400Baud Dial-Up. At least with a pair T3 circuits 672
residents would get, worse case scenario, the equiv. of an ISDBN line or ~128Kb/s.

An alternate, based upon your locale, would be FIOS.

Dave

"Victor" <mr526@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e56bbb07.0410251343.40509bf2@posting.google.com...
| Hello all,
|
| I need some advice on broadband choice, between T1 and DSL. I know
| that they both have their own adv and disadv.
|
| But, let me describe the situation,
|
| "We currently have two buildings with around 600-700 residents. We are
| only able to provide around 240 DSL users, and of course, the waiting
| list is pretty long. We are expecting to increase our service to
| another 144 new users. The people who are in charge are purchasing
| more modems because of it."
|
| Now, I wonder, what's the max # of users DSL can provide? How about
| T1? What's its max # of users?
|
| The building will need re-wiring of course, will it worth to invest in
| T1? The first installation will cost some amount of money.
|
| So far, we have spent around 60K, and are expecting to spend another
| 30K on another 144 new users. Will migrating to T1 help?
|
| Well, in the end, my team and I need some convincing reason to
| convince telecommunication office to migrate to T1.
|
|
| Thank you all,
|
|
| Victor

David H. Lipman · Guest

I forget. Assuming $3900/month per T3 with 672 residence that's ~$12 per residence.
Charging $20/month would be fair.

Dave

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:GMffd.2457$Xq3.1408@trndny01...
| Neither ! (unless you can get multiple VDSL circuits)
|
| You should get two T3 (DS3 -- which is equiv. to ~28 T1 lines ) and inverse multiplex that
| into sub-channels. One for each building with each sub-channel based upon a multiple, of
| your choice of 64K. Then each sub-channel should go to a NAT device to serve X number of
| residents.
|
| A T1 is symmetrical 1.5Mb/s and you can't divide that 700 ways. Assuming worse case, each
| residence would be worse of than 2400Baud Dial-Up. At least with a pair T3 circuits 672
| residents would get, worse case scenario, the equiv. of an ISDBN line or ~128Kb/s.
|
| An alternate, based upon your locale, would be FIOS.
|
| Dave
|
|
|
|
| "Victor" <mr526@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| news:e56bbb07.0410251343.40509bf2@posting.google.com...
| | Hello all,
| |
| | I need some advice on broadband choice, between T1 and DSL. I know
| | that they both have their own adv and disadv.
| |
| | But, let me describe the situation,
| |
| | "We currently have two buildings with around 600-700 residents. We are
| | only able to provide around 240 DSL users, and of course, the waiting
| | list is pretty long. We are expecting to increase our service to
| | another 144 new users. The people who are in charge are purchasing
| | more modems because of it."
| |
| | Now, I wonder, what's the max # of users DSL can provide? How about
| | T1? What's its max # of users?
| |
| | The building will need re-wiring of course, will it worth to invest in
| | T1? The first installation will cost some amount of money.
| |
| | So far, we have spent around 60K, and are expecting to spend another
| | 30K on another 144 new users. Will migrating to T1 help?
| |
| | Well, in the end, my team and I need some convincing reason to
| | convince telecommunication office to migrate to T1.
| |
| |
| | Thank you all,
| |
| |
| | Victor
|
|

glen herrmannsfeldt · Guest

Victor wrote:

David H. Lipman · Guest

Really ?

T1 for 5,000 feet ?

My T1 line stretches 77 miles through New Jersey.

Dave

"glen herrmannsfeldt" <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:IsIfd.11964$HA.620@attbi_s01...
| Victor wrote:
|
| > I need some advice on broadband choice, between T1 and DSL. I know
| > that they both have their own adv and disadv.
|
| > "We currently have two buildings with around 600-700 residents. We are
| > only able to provide around 240 DSL users, and of course, the waiting
| > list is pretty long. We are expecting to increase our service to
| > another 144 new users. The people who are in charge are purchasing
| > more modems because of it."
|
| > Now, I wonder, what's the max # of users DSL can provide? How about
| > T1? What's its max # of users?
|
| This question is a little strange. Both DSL and T1 are used
| for WAN, that is long distance, connections. Well, in
| the thousands of feet range. T1 can be used through
| telephone company systems, but for shorter distances,
| maybe 5000 feet, it can run through dedicated two pair
| wiring. That is, you lease from the phone company wires
| from one place to another but that don't go through any
| phone company electronics.
|
| Within a building it is more usual to use ethernet, at least from
| wiring closets to individual rooms. I suppose it would
| be possible to use DSL, putting DSL head end electronics
| somewhere in the building, but I have never heard of that
| being done. T1 could also be used within a building, but
| again I have never heard of it being done.
|
| Now, if your residents are using DSL service directly
| from an ISP, usually a phone company, then it is usually
| a direct deal between a resident and the ISP. Unless the
| building phone wiring isn't up to standard, in which case
| it should be redone.
|
| -- glen
|

Marc Randolph · Guest

David H. Lipman wrote:

David H. Lipman · Guest

It may very well be a troll as it was posted via Google and if it was important to the OP
than the OP would have returned to the thread by now.

Dave

"Marc Randolph" <mrand@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:lpOdnejDA9zkOOLcRVn-3w@comcast.com...
| David H. Lipman wrote:
|
| > Really ?
| >
| > T1 for 5,000 feet ?
| >
| > My T1 line stretches 77 miles through New Jersey.
| >
| > Dave
|
| I suspect that Glen was referring to a single copper span. Short haul
| T1/E1 LIUs (driver chips) are rated up to 655 feet. Long haul LIUs are
| rated to many thousands of feet... generally something between 2000 and
| 5000.
|
| Beyond that range, you either need a regenerator/repeater type device,
| or an optical/electrical converter (and even then, 77 miles is over 120
| km, a longer reach than most optical products would provide).
|
| As for the original question, I'm a little unclear on exactly what the
| OP has currently in terms of infrastructure. Does he really have 240
| DSL lines active from the CO into the two buildings? I'd think that a
| protected DS3, OC-3, or rate limited GbE would be considerably cheaper
| per month than that many DSL's.
|
|
| Marc
|
|
| > "glen herrmannsfeldt" <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
| > news:IsIfd.11964$HA.620@attbi_s01...
| > | Victor wrote:
| > |
| > | > I need some advice on broadband choice, between T1 and DSL. I know
| > | > that they both have their own adv and disadv.
| > |
| > | > "We currently have two buildings with around 600-700 residents. We are
| > | > only able to provide around 240 DSL users, and of course, the waiting
| > | > list is pretty long. We are expecting to increase our service to
| > | > another 144 new users. The people who are in charge are purchasing
| > | > more modems because of it."
| > |
| > | > Now, I wonder, what's the max # of users DSL can provide? How about
| > | > T1? What's its max # of users?
| > |
| > | This question is a little strange. Both DSL and T1 are used
| > | for WAN, that is long distance, connections. Well, in
| > | the thousands of feet range. T1 can be used through
| > | telephone company systems, but for shorter distances,
| > | maybe 5000 feet, it can run through dedicated two pair
| > | wiring. That is, you lease from the phone company wires
| > | from one place to another but that don't go through any
| > | phone company electronics.
| > |
| > | Within a building it is more usual to use ethernet, at least from
| > | wiring closets to individual rooms. I suppose it would
| > | be possible to use DSL, putting DSL head end electronics
| > | somewhere in the building, but I have never heard of that
| > | being done. T1 could also be used within a building, but
| > | again I have never heard of it being done.
| > |
| > | Now, if your residents are using DSL service directly
| > | from an ISP, usually a phone company, then it is usually
| > | a direct deal between a resident and the ISP. Unless the
| > | building phone wiring isn't up to standard, in which case
| > | it should be redone.
| > |
| > | -- glen
| > |
| >
| >

Earl Camembert · Guest

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:17:12 GMT, "David H. Lipman"
<DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote:

Earl Camembert · Guest

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:52:09 GMT, glen herrmannsfeldt
<gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:

David H. Lipman · Guest

You are correct Earl. This was not mentioned and the ISP would tack on a fee if the service
is "commercial" in nature and resold.

Dave

"Earl Camembert" <nospam@forme.org> wrote in message
news:gni0o0ddig7b7dfuocfi3663h6jcsdbgpc@4ax.com...
| On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:17:12 GMT, "David H. Lipman"
| <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote:
|
| >I forget. Assuming $3900/month per T3 with 672 residence that's ~$12 per residence.
| >Charging $20/month would be fair.
| >
| >Dave
|
| What about an ISP? Will TPC (The Phone Comapany) allow you to sublease
| there broadband? You have spent 60,000.00 USD and don't have those
| answers yet?
|
|
|
| >
| >
| >"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
| >news:GMffd.2457$Xq3.1408@trndny01...
| >| Neither ! (unless you can get multiple VDSL circuits)
| >|
| >| You should get two T3 (DS3 -- which is equiv. to ~28 T1 lines ) and inverse multiplex
that
| >| into sub-channels. One for each building with each sub-channel based upon a multiple,
of
| >| your choice of 64K. Then each sub-channel should go to a NAT device to serve X number
of
| >| residents.
| >|
| >| A T1 is symmetrical 1.5Mb/s and you can't divide that 700 ways. Assuming worse case,
each
| >| residence would be worse of than 2400Baud Dial-Up. At least with a pair T3 circuits
672
| >| residents would get, worse case scenario, the equiv. of an ISDBN line or ~128Kb/s.
| >|
| >| An alternate, based upon your locale, would be FIOS.
| >|
| >| Dave
| >|
| >|
| >|
| >|
| >| "Victor" <mr526@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| >| news:e56bbb07.0410251343.40509bf2@posting.google.com...
| >| | Hello all,
| >| |
| >| | I need some advice on broadband choice, between T1 and DSL. I know
| >| | that they both have their own adv and disadv.
| >| |
| >| | But, let me describe the situation,
| >| |
| >| | "We currently have two buildings with around 600-700 residents. We are
| >| | only able to provide around 240 DSL users, and of course, the waiting
| >| | list is pretty long. We are expecting to increase our service to
| >| | another 144 new users. The people who are in charge are purchasing
| >| | more modems because of it."
| >| |
| >| | Now, I wonder, what's the max # of users DSL can provide? How about
| >| | T1? What's its max # of users?
| >| |
| >| | The building will need re-wiring of course, will it worth to invest in
| >| | T1? The first installation will cost some amount of money.
| >| |
| >| | So far, we have spent around 60K, and are expecting to spend another
| >| | 30K on another 144 new users. Will migrating to T1 help?
| >| |
| >| | Well, in the end, my team and I need some convincing reason to
| >| | convince telecommunication office to migrate to T1.
| >| |
| >| |
| >| | Thank you all,
| >| |
| >| |
| >| | Victor
| >|
| >|
| >
|

Earl Camembert · Guest

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:07:41 GMT, "David H. Lipman"
<DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote:

Victor · Guest

I want to thank you on all of your expert advice.

I'll have meeting today, so I'll find out more about the current infrastructure.

Thank you again.

Victor

Earl Camembert <nospam@forme.org> wrote in message news:<e1j0o0pe7gj5jgif1v1o02s4ebucqivjk7@4ax.com>...

David H. Lipman · Guest

Victor:

What were the results of the meeting ?

Did you do a site survey ?

Dave

"Victor" <mr526@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e56bbb07.0410291015.1ea74165@posting.google.com...
| I want to thank you on all of your expert advice.
|
| I'll have meeting today, so I'll find out more about the current infrastructure.
|
|
| Thank you again.
|
|
| Victor
|
| Earl Camembert <nospam@forme.org> wrote in message
news:<e1j0o0pe7gj5jgif1v1o02s4ebucqivjk7@4ax.com>...
| > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:52:09 GMT, glen herrmannsfeldt
| > <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
| >
| >
| > >This question is a little strange. Both DSL and T1 are used
| > >for WAN, that is long distance, connections. Well, in
| > >the thousands of feet range. T1 can be used through
| > >telephone company systems, but for shorter distances,
| > >maybe 5000 feet, it can run through dedicated two pair
| > >wiring. That is, you lease from the phone company wires
| > >from one place to another but that don't go through any
| > >phone company electronics.
| >
| > Even a private line goes through TPC's network. As Dave has pointed
| > out TPC can send a circuit around the world