| Author |
Message |
Thad O
Guest
|
 Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:53 am Post subject:
Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
Well my equipment arrived and I have some general questions:
1) Suprise, suprise, my modem is a Efficient SpeedSteam 5100
( it says 5100 not 5100b on the box ). But no manual came with
the modem, just software and a manual for the software. Also
how do I find out the settings I use ie ethernet address, DNS
whatever else is needed. I suspect the software configures this,
but I would rather avoid the software, just whatever software
is needed to control the modem. ( By the way, where can I download
that? I suspect from the same place that you download the manual. )
2) They provide a cable to connect the modem to the phone socket.
It looks different from standard phone cable. Unfortunately I need
about twenty feet and they give me ten :( Do I need special DSL
cable or is any phone extension cable good? ( Or I can use the whole
ethernet cable to make up the distance and leave the modem in my
bathroom ;) ).
3) They say put a dsl filter on every device. They are emphatic about
this. Their drawing looks like this:
wall outlet --insert filter here--device
wall outlet --insert filter here--device
wall outlet --insert filter here--device
....
My configuration looks like
wall outlet --splitter -- previous modem
+----Caller ID---answering machine---phone
To me it seems logical
to do this:
wall outlet -- combination dsl filter/splitter--dsl modem
+CallerID--answering machine--phone .
but a strict reading of the manual would suggest
wall outlet -- combination dsl filter/splitter--dsl modem
+CallerID--dsl filter--answering machine--
dsl filter--phone .
Which is it?
Thanks. |
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Neil W Rickert
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:53 am Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
Thad O <not_that_o_but_lczyk@interaccess.com> writes:
| Quote: | One more question:
is a 10/100Mbs NIC sufficient,
or do I need a 1 Gigabit card?
|
10/100 is fine. |
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|
|
John Dearing
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:10 am Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
Thad O wrote:
| Quote: | Well my equipment arrived and I have some general questions:
1) Suprise, suprise, my modem is a Efficient SpeedSteam 5100
( it says 5100 not 5100b on the box ). But no manual came with
the modem, just software and a manual for the software. Also
how do I find out the settings I use ie ethernet address, DNS
whatever else is needed. I suspect the software configures this,
but I would rather avoid the software, just whatever software
is needed to control the modem. ( By the way, where can I download
that? I suspect from the same place that you download the manual. )
|
Try starting at:
http://www.efficient.com/subscriber_networks/5100.shtml
Depending on who your DSL provider is, that will determine wether the
modem is operating in bridge mode or not as well as how you obtain IP
address (DHCP or PPPoE or PPPoA).
Who is your DSL provider??
| Quote: | 2) They provide a cable to connect the modem to the phone socket.
It looks different from standard phone cable. Unfortunately I need
about twenty feet and they give me ten :( Do I need special DSL
cable or is any phone extension cable good? ( Or I can use the whole
ethernet cable to make up the distance and leave the modem in my
bathroom ;) ).
|
Well, I wouldn't leave it in a bathroom, but the modem doesn't *have* to
be right next to the PC. A longish ethernet cable is perfectly acceptable.
When installing microfilters, make sue that every device *except* the
modem gets a filter in front of it. The DSL modem *must* be unfiltered.
John
--
John Dearing
A+, Network+ |
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Thad O
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:37 am Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:10:39 GMT, John Dearing
<John.Dearing@VerYOURPANTSizon.NET> wrote:
| Quote: | Thad O wrote:
Well my equipment arrived and I have some general questions:
1) Suprise, suprise, my modem is a Efficient SpeedSteam 5100
( it says 5100 not 5100b on the box ). But no manual came with
the modem, just software and a manual for the software. Also
how do I find out the settings I use ie ethernet address, DNS
whatever else is needed. I suspect the software configures this,
but I would rather avoid the software, just whatever software
is needed to control the modem. ( By the way, where can I download
that? I suspect from the same place that you download the manual. )
Try starting at:
http://www.efficient.com/subscriber_networks/5100.shtml
Depending on who your DSL provider is, that will determine wether the
modem is operating in bridge mode or not as well as how you obtain IP
address (DHCP or PPPoE or PPPoA).
Who is your DSL provider??
|
SBC.
| Quote: |
2) They provide a cable to connect the modem to the phone socket.
It looks different from standard phone cable. Unfortunately I need
about twenty feet and they give me ten :( Do I need special DSL
cable or is any phone extension cable good? ( Or I can use the whole
ethernet cable to make up the distance and leave the modem in my
bathroom ;) ).
Well, I wouldn't leave it in a bathroom, but the modem doesn't *have* to
be right next to the PC. A longish ethernet cable is perfectly acceptable.
Ok. But is the other cable the one from the phone outlet to the modem |
special? Is there a limit on it's length. Since it's smaller, I would
rather run it than ethernet.
| Quote: | When installing microfilters, make sue that every device *except* the
modem gets a filter in front of it. The DSL modem *must* be unfiltered.
|
Each one except the modem even when they are daisy chained? Or is it
enough to filter the begining of the chain? |
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Neil W Rickert
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:30 am Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Thad O <not_that_o_but_lczyk@interaccess.com> writes:
| Quote: | Well my equipment arrived and I have some general questions:
1) Suprise, suprise, my modem is a Efficient SpeedSteam 5100
( it says 5100 not 5100b on the box ).
|
It doesn't say "b". But it should have 5 lights (LEDs) on the
front. That's what distinguishes the "b" version from the "a"
version.
| Quote: | . But no manual came with
the modem, just software and a manual for the software. Also
how do I find out the settings I use ie ethernet address, DNS
whatever else is needed.
|
You don't need to set those.
What you do need, is to configure your account information, so that
the modem can login for you. The modem then gets IP and DNS info
from the server.
You might find these links useful:
http://www.broadbandreports.com/faq/8346
http://www.broadbandreports.com/faq/9724
| Quote: | I suspect the software configures this,
but I would rather avoid the software, just whatever software
is needed to control the modem. ( By the way, where can I download
that? I suspect from the same place that you download the manual. )
|
You can avoid the software by following the recommendation in the
first of the above links.
| Quote: | 2) They provide a cable to connect the modem to the phone socket.
It looks different from standard phone cable. Unfortunately I need
about twenty feet and they give me ten :( Do I need special DSL
cable or is any phone extension cable good? ( Or I can use the whole
ethernet cable to make up the distance and leave the modem in my
bathroom ;) ).
|
Any phone extension should be okay.
| Quote: | 3) They say put a dsl filter on every device. They are emphatic about
this. Their drawing looks like this:
|
You don't need one on the DSL modem. You do need one for telephones,
answering machines, fax machines, just about anything else.
| Quote: | wall outlet --insert filter here--device
wall outlet --insert filter here--device
wall outlet --insert filter here--device
...
My configuration looks like
wall outlet --splitter -- previous modem
+----Caller ID---answering machine---phone
|
If you are asking can you put several things on one filter, yes
that should work. The main thing is that you need a filter between
any conventional telephone equipment and the line.
If you plug in a single phone cord, with a duplex connector, yes
you can connect filter to outlet, line cord to filter, then your
various equipment to the multi-outlet connector on the other end
of the phone cord.
| Quote: | To me it seems logical
to do this:
wall outlet -- combination dsl filter/splitter--dsl modem
+CallerID--answering machine--phone .
|
Make sure that your dsl modem is *not* filtered. If you have a
filter with two outlets -- one labelled phone and the other labelled
dsl, that's ok. The outlet with the dsl label isn't really filtered
by that filter. It is also okay to just plug the dsl modem directly
into a wall outlet.
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c4tLdQ167QKiHuo7PI6yh/s=
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Thad O
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:46 am Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
One more question:
is a 10/100Mbs NIC sufficient,
or do I need a 1 Gigabit card? |
|
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|
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Kay Archer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:05 am Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
"Thad O" <not_that_o_but_lczyk@interaccess.com> wrote in message
news:5bahs05ed1gaj8sifgsmsqnujk22t73g85@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Well my equipment arrived and I have some general questions:
1) Suprise, suprise, my modem is a Efficient SpeedSteam 5100
( it says 5100 not 5100b on the box ).
The 5100b has 5 lights and the 5100a has 4. But when you ask the customers |
they all say they have 3 lights (can't count higher I guess)
But no manual came with
| Quote: | the modem,
efficient.com |
just software and a manual for the software. Also
| Quote: | how do I find out the settings I use ie ethernet address, DNS
whatever else is needed. I suspect the software configures this,
but I would rather avoid the software, just whatever software
is needed to control the modem.
|
Hook it up, the modem is a DHCP server and will provide your computer with
that information automagically.
( By the way, where can I download
| Quote: | that?
help.sbcglobal.net |
I suspect from the same place that you download the manual. )
| Quote: | 2) They provide a cable to connect the modem to the phone socket.
It looks different from standard phone cable. Unfortunately I need
about twenty feet and they give me ten :( Do I need special DSL
cable or is any phone extension cable good?
cat-3 cable is cat-3 cable. Any quality telephone cable should work. |
( Or I can use the whole
| Quote: | ethernet cable to make up the distance and leave the modem in my
bathroom ;) ).
|
A better choice becuase the cat-5 (or better) ethernet cable is less likely
to be interferred with than the cat-3 telephone cable.
| Quote: | 3) They say put a dsl filter on every device. They are emphatic about
this. Their drawing looks like this:
wall outlet --insert filter here--device
wall outlet --insert filter here--device
wall outlet --insert filter here--device
...
My configuration looks like
wall outlet --splitter -- previous modem
+----Caller ID---answering machine---phone
Not sure what you mean by 'previous modem'. A dial-up modem (56k) is a |
telephone (read: voice frequency) device and must go through the telephone
side of the filter. Alarm systems often require a special filter provided
($) by the alarm company.
| Quote: | To me it seems logical
to do this:
wall outlet -- combination dsl filter/splitter--dsl modem
+CallerID--answering machine--phone .
This should work. |
| Quote: | but a strict reading of the manual would suggest
wall outlet -- combination dsl filter/splitter--dsl modem
+CallerID--dsl filter--answering machine--
dsl filter--phone .
Don't do this (and don't read into it so closely (g)). |
In answer to your other question about the NIC, your service is going to max
out at 3mbps (maybe 6mbps) (15mbps in limited test areas). A 10BaseT NIC
(10mbps) is overkill for a 3mbps connection. the 100BaseT NICs (100mbps)
can communicate very well with the modem. The 1000BaseT NICs could have
trouble connecting to the modem. |
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Arnie Goetchius
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:05 am Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
Thad O wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:10:39 GMT, John Dearing
John.Dearing@VerYOURPANTSizon.NET> wrote:
======== snipped=============
Thad O wrote:
Each one except the modem even when they are daisy chained? Or is it
enough to filter the begining of the chain?
|
Just filter the beginning of the chain. Here's how I do it:
Telco _DSL __________________________________!__ PC _ !
Connector / Modem ! !
Block ___/_________ !_________!
==== ! Radio Shack! !
[ ] Line __! Duplex Jack! !
==== ! 279-448 ! !
!____________! !
\ ________ !
\_ DSL___! Radio !_$$_ WECO Key equip !
Filter ! Shack ! with 3 telephones !
! !_$$_ Fax from PC _______________!
! Wiring !
! Block !__ Panasonic KG XT 5110 2 phone
! !
! 279-430!___Acatel 2840 Webtouch Phone
! with dial up access
! !__ AT&T 612 desktop phone
! !
! !__ Radio Shack Wall Phone
! !
! !_$$_ 2 Dish Network Receivers
! !
!________!___AMCAMEX Caller ID Display
$$ indicates the use of either Radio Shack Single or Duplex Jack
to facilitate quick disconnect for testing purposes. |
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Neil W Rickert
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
"Marilyn and Bob" <privacy@nospam.please> writes:
| Quote: | Despite what everyone else has said, the cable from your phone jack to the
modem is ***NOT*** ordinary phone cable. Ordinary phone cable will work but
is susceptible to interference and perhaps speed reduction. As you noted,
it looks different. It is round instead of flat (am I correct?). It does
have the same RJ-11 plugs on the end so that it is physically
interchangeable with phone wire, but it is CAT-3 TWISTED PAIR wire which is
what you should be using for your extension.
|
My modem cable (provided with a speedstream 5861) is a flat 6
conductor wire, and surely not cat-3. According to the label, it has
a part number 210-00453-01.
Yes, sure, cat-3 cable would be less susceptible to interference.
But with maybe 10,000 feet of wiring from the CO to the home, and
perhaps 100 ft or more of internal phone wiring winding around the
house behind the walls, a 20 ft flat phone cable is unlikely to make
much of a difference. |
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BobT
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:09 pm Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:53:56 GMT, Thad O
<not_that_o_but_lczyk@interaccess.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Well my equipment arrived and I have some general questions:
1) Suprise, suprise, my modem is a Efficient SpeedSteam 5100
( it says 5100 not 5100b on the box ). But no manual came with
the modem, just software and a manual for the software. Also
how do I find out the settings I use ie ethernet address, DNS
whatever else is needed. I suspect the software configures this,
but I would rather avoid the software, just whatever software
is needed to control the modem. ( By the way, where can I download
that? I suspect from the same place that you download the manual. )
|
If it has 4 lights, it's the 5100(a), 5 lights is the 5100b. They are
both marked 5100.
Go to weww.dslreports.com and check out the forum for your DSL
provider. This should (many do) provide information on how to get
things working through the DSL modem without using the install CD. If
you are running WinXP, everything you need should be built in. With
older windows, some accessorial PPPoE software may be required.
| Quote: |
2) They provide a cable to connect the modem to the phone socket.
It looks different from standard phone cable. Unfortunately I need
about twenty feet and they give me ten :( Do I need special DSL
cable or is any phone extension cable good? ( Or I can use the whole
ethernet cable to make up the distance and leave the modem in my
bathroom ;) ).
|
The cable from modem to phone socket in the wall is a plain jane
telephone cable.
| Quote: |
3) They say put a dsl filter on every device. They are emphatic about
this. Their drawing looks like this:
|
The signal to every device, except the DSL modem, must pass through
the filter. You can use individual filters for each, or several
devices may be daisy-chained. There is probably a limit on number of
daisy-chained devices, but I have 3 (analog modem to answering machine
to phone) with no problem. |
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|
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Marilyn and Bob
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
Despite what everyone else has said, the cable from your phone jack to the
modem is ***NOT*** ordinary phone cable. Ordinary phone cable will work but
is susceptible to interference and perhaps speed reduction. As you noted,
it looks different. It is round instead of flat (am I correct?). It does
have the same RJ-11 plugs on the end so that it is physically
interchangeable with phone wire, but it is CAT-3 TWISTED PAIR wire which is
what you should be using for your extension.
--
Peace,
BobJ
"BobT" <fake@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:ff6js0ls3r2f4avse9gb0ul9lco0r0d1sv@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:53:56 GMT, Thad O
not_that_o_but_lczyk@interaccess.com> wrote:
Well my equipment arrived and I have some general questions:
1) Suprise, suprise, my modem is a Efficient SpeedSteam 5100
( it says 5100 not 5100b on the box ). But no manual came with
the modem, just software and a manual for the software. Also
how do I find out the settings I use ie ethernet address, DNS
whatever else is needed. I suspect the software configures this,
but I would rather avoid the software, just whatever software
is needed to control the modem. ( By the way, where can I download
that? I suspect from the same place that you download the manual. )
If it has 4 lights, it's the 5100(a), 5 lights is the 5100b. They are
both marked 5100.
Go to weww.dslreports.com and check out the forum for your DSL
provider. This should (many do) provide information on how to get
things working through the DSL modem without using the install CD. If
you are running WinXP, everything you need should be built in. With
older windows, some accessorial PPPoE software may be required.
2) They provide a cable to connect the modem to the phone socket.
It looks different from standard phone cable. Unfortunately I need
about twenty feet and they give me ten :( Do I need special DSL
cable or is any phone extension cable good? ( Or I can use the whole
ethernet cable to make up the distance and leave the modem in my
bathroom ;) ).
The cable from modem to phone socket in the wall is a plain jane
telephone cable.
3) They say put a dsl filter on every device. They are emphatic about
this. Their drawing looks like this:
The signal to every device, except the DSL modem, must pass through
the filter. You can use individual filters for each, or several
devices may be daisy-chained. There is probably a limit on number of
daisy-chained devices, but I have 3 (analog modem to answering machine
to phone) with no problem.
|
|
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Jack Gillis
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:48 pm Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
"Marilyn and Bob" <privacy@nospam.please> wrote in message
news:QThyd.7472$152.3981@trndny01...
| Quote: | Despite what everyone else has said, the cable from your phone jack to
the modem is ***NOT*** ordinary phone cable. Ordinary phone cable
will work but is susceptible to interference and perhaps speed
reduction. As you noted, it looks different. It is round instead of
flat (am I correct?). It does have the same RJ-11 plugs on the end so
that it is physically interchangeable with phone wire, but it is CAT-3
TWISTED PAIR wire which is what you should be using for your
extension.
--
Peace,
BobJ
|
I guess I am a littled puzzled. It would seem to me any problems caused
by the few feet of "plain jane" telephone wire between the wall jack and
the modem would be swamped by the same sort of problems caused by the
many feet of 2 pair wires running from the NID through the house to the
wall jack? Am I way off base here?
| Quote: |
"BobT" <fake@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:ff6js0ls3r2f4avse9gb0ul9lco0r0d1sv@4ax.com...
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:53:56 GMT, Thad O
not_that_o_but_lczyk@interaccess.com> wrote:
Well my equipment arrived and I have some general questions:
1) Suprise, suprise, my modem is a Efficient SpeedSteam 5100
( it says 5100 not 5100b on the box ). But no manual came with
the modem, just software and a manual for the software. Also
how do I find out the settings I use ie ethernet address, DNS
whatever else is needed. I suspect the software configures this,
but I would rather avoid the software, just whatever software
is needed to control the modem. ( By the way, where can I download
that? I suspect from the same place that you download the manual. )
If it has 4 lights, it's the 5100(a), 5 lights is the 5100b. They
are
both marked 5100.
Go to weww.dslreports.com and check out the forum for your DSL
provider. This should (many do) provide information on how to get
things working through the DSL modem without using the install CD.
If
you are running WinXP, everything you need should be built in. With
older windows, some accessorial PPPoE software may be required.
2) They provide a cable to connect the modem to the phone socket.
It looks different from standard phone cable. Unfortunately I need
about twenty feet and they give me ten :( Do I need special DSL
cable or is any phone extension cable good? ( Or I can use the whole
ethernet cable to make up the distance and leave the modem in my
bathroom ;) ).
The cable from modem to phone socket in the wall is a plain jane
telephone cable.
3) They say put a dsl filter on every device. They are emphatic about
this. Their drawing looks like this:
The signal to every device, except the DSL modem, must pass through
the filter. You can use individual filters for each, or several
devices may be daisy-chained. There is probably a limit on number of
daisy-chained devices, but I have 3 (analog modem to answering
machine
to phone) with no problem.
|
|
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Neil W Rickert
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:07 am Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
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Hash: SHA1
Thad O <not_that_o_but_lczyk@interaccess.com> writes:
| Quote: | rickert+nn@cs.niu.edu> wrote:
Yes, sure, cat-3 cable would be less susceptible to interference.
But with maybe 10,000 feet of wiring from the CO to the home, and
perhaps 100 ft or more of internal phone wiring winding around the
house behind the walls, a 20 ft flat phone cable is unlikely to make
much of a difference.
Actually I seem to remember terminal boxes. The cables that were
routing there is similar to cat 3. I suspect that the wiring from the
CO to the home is highly insulated and the signal probably amplified
at certain points ( like the entry point to a building ).
|
It is well insulated. But, as far as I know, it is not amplified
along the route.
| Quote: | Remember you
can only get DSL up to certain distances ( 12 miles IIRC ) for the CO.
|
More like 12000 feet (actually a bit more than that). They measure
me at around 16,000 feet, and I am near the limit for their 1.5 mbps
speed.
| Quote: | The cables in the wall are probably insulated too.
|
Sure. So is your phone line cord.
| Quote: | Since I know you get SBC DSl, let me ask you a question. When I
spoke to the saleslady, I asked about nttp servers, since they
mentioned newsgroups on their web site. She actually called tech
support to confirm they run one.
|
Yes, they have a news server.
There news server coverage is better than at the university campus
where I normally post. However, their coverage of binary groups
is apparently poor and much criticized. Since I don't use those myself,
I haven't noticed.
Anyway, I am posting this reply via one of the SBC servers, so that
you can examine the Path: header. Note that I still use the same
posting address in the "From:" line, although sending this via
news.chi.sbcglobal.net.
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coja73LLHTyUCFAfsnlM0qQ=
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Thad O
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:08 am Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:14:58 +0000 (UTC), Neil W Rickert
<rickert+nn@cs.niu.edu> wrote:
| Quote: | Thad O <not_that_o_but_lczyk@interaccess.com> writes:
One more question:
is a 10/100Mbs NIC sufficient,
or do I need a 1 Gigabit card?
10/100 is fine.
Sorry to ask such a dunb question, but TPTB don't settle |
on one set of units. So soemtimes I get confused with the
comparision. Especially when at times you combine upload and dowload
and other times you don't. |
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Thad O
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:08 am Post subject:
Re: Some general questions on DSL. |
|
|
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 17:51:52 +0000 (UTC), Neil W Rickert
<rickert+nn@cs.niu.edu> wrote:
| Quote: | "Marilyn and Bob" <privacy@nospam.please> writes:
Despite what everyone else has said, the cable from your phone jack to the
modem is ***NOT*** ordinary phone cable. Ordinary phone cable will work but
is susceptible to interference and perhaps speed reduction. As you noted,
it looks different. It is round instead of flat (am I correct?). It does
have the same RJ-11 plugs on the end so that it is physically
interchangeable with phone wire, but it is CAT-3 TWISTED PAIR wire which is
what you should be using for your extension.
My modem cable (provided with a speedstream 5861) is a flat 6
conductor wire, and surely not cat-3. According to the label, it has
a part number 210-00453-01.
Yes, sure, cat-3 cable would be less susceptible to interference.
But with maybe 10,000 feet of wiring from the CO to the home, and
perhaps 100 ft or more of internal phone wiring winding around the
house behind the walls, a 20 ft flat phone cable is unlikely to make
much of a difference.
Actually I seem to remember terminal boxes. The cables that were |
routing there is similar to cat 3. I suspect that the wiring from the
CO to the home is highly insulated and the signal probably amplified
at certain points ( like the entry point to a building ). Remember you
can only get DSL up to certain distances ( 12 miles IIRC ) for the CO.
The cables in the wall are probably insulated too.
Since I know you get SBC DSl, let me ask you a question. When I
spoke to the saleslady, I asked about nttp servers, since they
mentioned newsgroups on their web site. She actually called tech
support to confirm they run one. Yet I could not find it in the
description. For the most part I use the free German one (
news.individual.net IIRC ) since my ISP's servers went down
for a while. I still use my ISP's in some cases, but in others not.
It is nice to know that I have a backup system though. |
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