DComTalk.com

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <o96dnf3XO5qstfXeRVn-uQ@adelphia.com> on Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:45:03 -0700,
"Scott" <how.do@you.do> wrote:

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:u5V9f.1744$te3.28968@typhoon.sonic.net...

The two main worries for carriers are churn and ARPU.

Agreed, and it appears that Cingular's treatment of former ATTW customers is
a leading reason for the decline.

There was no "decline" -- Cingular added 4.4 million new subscribers, for a
net gain of 867,000.

Maybe Sprint learned something by watching all of this. Rate plans and
pricing are similar between networks. The only difference between network
offerings are those that aren't possible technically (ie, Direct Connect on
the CDMA network). There is no pressure to migrate and customers aren't
being strong armed into moving over to the CDMA network. By the time this
becomes an issue for the company, most will probably have voluntarily
migrated through promotions and offers.

I seriously doubt that.

The other thing I notice- Sprint and Verizon seem to be focusing most of
their energy on 4G, while Cingular is struggling with stabilizing their
subscriber base. By the time they have accomplished this, they could be
years behind the competition.

On the contrary -- Cingular is rolling out HSDPA aggressively.

And it could be that we are witnessing the second chapter of the ATTW
implosion- poor management and marketing decisions that end up in customers
leaving by the boatload.

No actual evidence of that.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

John Navas Oct 25, 3:01 pm
Robertson <jrne...@att.biz> wrote:

I heard from a usually reliable source that Cingular will launch UMTS
with HSDPA in the 18 markets on November 1. Anyone else heard this?

I have heard that rumor, but I think it may prove to be optimistic, since
AFAIK there isn't yet any HSDPA deployment anywhere.
==========================================================

John Navas Nov 2, 3:45 am

On the contrary -- Cingular is rolling out HSDPA aggressively.

Draw your own conclusions.

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

In article <ZJ0af.22934$zb5.1780@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:


GSM is now the leading cellular technology in the USA.


Rubbish.

It depends on how you're counting. If you're counting by total
subscribers, then CDMA is far, far ahead of GSM. CDMA has about 104
million subscribers in the U.S, versus about 70 million for GSM. I say
"about" because these numbers are from June 2005, with some additions
based on subscriber additions and conversions from TDMA. And the GSM
number is high, because the June 2005 statistic wa "69 million in the
U.S. and Canada."

What's amusing about 3G Americas statistics page is that they carefully
leave out key information. No where do they break down the subscriber
totals for the U.S., instead presenting statistics for the "Western
Hemisphere," and "Latin America," or "U.S. and Canada." No where do they
explain that the reason that the percentage rate increase is greater for
GSM because of the conversions from TDMA; there is one graph that shows
TDMA losses and GSM gains but they are hoping that no one notices that
when you take out the TDMA conversions, CDMA is adding more _new_
subscribers).

GSM is growing faster, percentage wise, because of TDMA conversions, but
the CDMA carriers are adding more _new_ subscribers than the GSM carriers.

In terms of data, CDMA is so far ahead of GSM that it's now longer even
a contest. Sometime in 2006, Cingular will deploy HSDPA, and then
they'll begin to compete in data.



If you're counting in another way, then GSM is the leader in the U.S.A.,
but no one has yet figured out how to count in that way, not even the 3G
industry trade group.

In article <ZJ0af.22934$zb5.1780@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:

GSM is now the leading cellular technology in the USA.

Rubbish.

In article <yz0af.13339$qk4.10309@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:

And you can disagree, but you are wrong as substantiated by fact and not
opinion (on both counts).

That's just your opinion. So noted.

What about "you are wrong as substantiated by fact and not opinion" do
you take to mean that's only his opinion?

Jesus, Navas, you're a piece of work. He states facts; you'd rather the
world not be like that, but rather than simply not responding, you
respond by saying the facts are only his opinion?

What color *IS* the sky in your world, Navas?

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:46:34 GMT,
in article <ej4af.1774$te3.29953@typhoon.sonic.net>,
scharf.steven@geemail.com (SMS) writes...

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
In article <ZJ0af.22934$zb5.1780@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:


GSM is now the leading cellular technology in the USA.


Rubbish.

It depends on how you're counting. If you're counting by total
subscribers, then CDMA is far, far ahead of GSM. CDMA has about 104
million subscribers in the U.S, versus about 70 million for GSM. I say
"about" because these numbers are from June 2005, with some additions
based on subscriber additions and conversions from TDMA. And the GSM
number is high, because the June 2005 statistic wa "69 million in the
U.S. and Canada."

Don't forget that Cingular had to revise their numbers downward
because they recently "discovered" that they had over-counted
subscribers over the last 3 quarters.

http://www.forbes.com/associatedpress/f ... 68065.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051010/cingular ... .html?.v=1



--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <MPG.1dd2a4f9f69082a198a929@corp.supernews.com> on Wed, 2 Nov 2005 10:27:40
-0800, Philip J. Koenig <See_email_@ddress_below.This_one_is.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:46:34 GMT,
in article <ej4af.1774$te3.29953@typhoon.sonic.net>,
scharf.steven@geemail.com (SMS) writes...
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
In article <ZJ0af.22934$zb5.1780@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:

GSM is now the leading cellular technology in the USA.

Rubbish.

It depends on how you're counting. If you're counting by total
subscribers, then CDMA is far, far ahead of GSM. CDMA has about 104
million subscribers in the U.S, versus about 70 million for GSM. I say
"about" because these numbers are from June 2005, with some additions
based on subscriber additions and conversions from TDMA. And the GSM
number is high, because the June 2005 statistic wa "69 million in the
U.S. and Canada."

Don't forget that Cingular had to revise their numbers downward
because they recently "discovered" that they had over-counted
subscribers over the last 3 quarters.

http://www.forbes.com/associatedpress/f ... 68065.html
...

Much Ado About Nothing:

"The company said the change represents less than 0.3 percent of its
customer base as of June 30."

There is at least that much uncertainty in customer counts from all carriers.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <ej4af.1774$te3.29953@typhoon.sonic.net> on Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:46:34 GMT,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

In terms of data, CDMA is so far ahead of GSM that it's now longer even
a contest. Sometime in 2006, Cingular will deploy HSDPA, and then
they'll begin to compete in data.

UMTS has long been live, and now HSDPA has gone live, with rollout by the end
of the year 2005 in 15-20 markets.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

"John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:ZJ0af.22934$zb5.1780@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

ARPU difference of less than 1%; i.e., insignificant.

A couple of more horrific quarters for Cingular, ...

Actually a good quarter:

Cingular's third-quarter revenues totaled $8.7 billion, up 6.2
percent versus pro forma revenue of $8.2 billion for the third
quarter of 2004 and up 1.6 percent versus the second quarter of this
year.

Sprint Pro forma revenues of $8.07 billion increased 12% year-over-year.
Verizon Wireless total quarterly revenues of $8.4 billion, up $1.0 billion,
or 14.2 percent -- the 13th consecutive quarter of double-digit
year-over-year revenue growth increases.

Reported operating income totaled $657 million, up 30.4 percent from
$504 million in the second quarter of this year.

Sprint Pro forma Adjusted Operating Income* of $698 million increased 45%
year-over-year

Cingular's third-quarter operating expenses included $241 million of
direct merger integration costs and $96 million in hurricane-related
costs. Excluding these costs, operating income would have totaled
$994 million, up 40.4 percent from a comparable $708 million in the
preceding quarter. Excluding an additional $396 million of noncash
expenses for the amortization of intangibles that were acquired as
part of Cingular's merger with AT&T Wireless, third-quarter operating
income would have been $1.4 billion, up from a comparable $1.2
billion in the second quarter of 2005.

Sprint Pro forma Adjusted OIBDA of $2.65 billion increased 14%
year-over-year.

The important thing is that CDMA is increasing its lead over GSM
in the U.S.

GSM is now the leading cellular technology in the USA.

Proof?

Then why are the little guys posting better numbers? Cingular had its third
consecutive quarter of declining net adds (the only one of the national
carriers to have such a streak) and the wonderful financial numbers are
being equalled or exceeded by smaller carriers. You conveniently left out
churn and net ads when posting, and the 'special items' in your last
paragraph pale in comparison to those of other carriers- other carriers that
showed more profitability on a per subscriber basis. Feel free to deflect
attention away from the numbers- I need yet another example of your
comprehension gaps.

"John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:JX7af.25065$zb5.6004@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Much Ado About Nothing:

"The company said the change represents less than 0.3 percent of its
customer base as of June 30."

There is at least that much uncertainty in customer counts from all
carriers.

Any proof, or is this another of your uninformed guesses?

"John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:JX7af.25065$zb5.6004@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

...

Much Ado About Nothing:

"The company said the change represents less than 0.3 percent of its
customer base as of June 30."

150,000 customers is not insignificant, moron.

There is at least that much uncertainty in customer counts from all
carriers.

Where's the proof?

Scott wrote:

Proof?

Funny stuff. You should at least get an explanation of the word
"leading" since clearly it doesn't mean more subscribers.

Then why are the little guys posting better numbers? Cingular had its third
consecutive quarter of declining net adds (the only one of the national
carriers to have such a streak)

Declining net additions are a very bad sign for any carrier, but
remember that the market is pretty saturated.

Sprint has really turned things around, and they appear to have some
good marketing people at least. The automatic tiered pricing, and the
off-network roaming are two advantages they have over Verizon.

Alas, what Sprint doesn't have, is off-network roaming in areas where
they have a network, no matter how poor that network may be. In my area,
it's pretty bad too.

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:bgdaf.1934$te3.31045@typhoon.sonic.net...

Scott wrote:

Proof?

Funny stuff. You should at least get an explanation of the word "leading"
since clearly it doesn't mean more subscribers.

I'll more than likely get nothing- it is more in line with Navas when he is
confronted with facts.

Then why are the little guys posting better numbers? Cingular had its
third
consecutive quarter of declining net adds (the only one of the national
carriers to have such a streak)

Declining net additions are a very bad sign for any carrier, but remember
that the market is pretty saturated.

Not yet- penetration levels are far lower than in other areas of the world.
The declining numbers are exclusive to Cingular. Verizon added 1.9
million in the quarter. Sprint added 1.3 million in the quarter. Cingular
couldn't break 1 million.

Sprint has really turned things around, and they appear to have some good
marketing people at least. The automatic tiered pricing, and the
off-network roaming are two advantages they have over Verizon.

Alas, what Sprint doesn't have, is off-network roaming in areas where they
have a network, no matter how poor that network may be. In my area, it's
pretty bad too.

Agreed.

"GomJabbar" <dkbatson@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1130935771.529066.255640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

John Navas Oct 25, 3:01 pm
Robertson <jrne...@att.biz> wrote:
I heard from a usually reliable source that Cingular will launch UMTS
with HSDPA in the 18 markets on November 1. Anyone else heard this?

I have heard that rumor, but I think it may prove to be optimistic,
since
AFAIK there isn't yet any HSDPA deployment anywhere.
==========================================================
John Navas Nov 2, 3:45 am

On the contrary -- Cingular is rolling out HSDPA aggressively.

Draw your own conclusions.

I really can not believe this thread is STILL going on!

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 00:57:43 GMT,
in article <bgdaf.1934$te3.31045@typhoon.sonic.net>,
scharf.steven@geemail.com (SMS) writes...

Sprint has really turned things around, and they appear to have some
good marketing people at least. The automatic tiered pricing, and the
off-network roaming are two advantages they have over Verizon.

It's a pity that their customer service seems to get consistently
low marks. That appears to have dogged their wireless group for
a long time.




--
* Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which *
* differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are *
* even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein *
* *
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkusenet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *