| Author |
Message |
James Russo
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject:
retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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Hello,
I am looking to retrofit my existing single story home with a
structured wiring system. I am looking to install the 42" leviton panel
flush mounted in the laundry room. Most rooms will have 2 cat5e and 2
rg6 cables. Some rooms will have more cables like living room and my
office. These drops will replace the existing daisy chained cat5 for
phone and home run rg6 cable. Some questions I currently have are:
- Will flush mounting the leviton box in a retrofit application be a
problem? I think my studs are not 16" centers (24?) so I was planning on
mounting the box against one stud and then just securing the other side
of the box against a 2x4" secured to the drywall.
- Should I use two color cables to each room? I have mixed feelings on
this one. In most rooms the situation will likely be 1 data and 1 phone
outlet. Pulling two colors make sense for that but would quickly loose
it's meaning as I find the need to reconfigure things. I am planning on
buying 2 boxes of cable to make the pulls eaiser (2 at once).
- Many of the cat5e drops will be for phone, but want the flexibility to
use them for data in the future if needed. I am planning on terminating
all connections with leviton quickport inserts. Should I just terminate
everything with cat5e connectors? Should I use different color inserts?
I've normally always seem orange used for network, but I don't think
there is any standard on this. My concern is what would happen if
someone were to accidently cross over a phone and a network cable. Is
this something I need to worry about?
- In the attic I was planning on using cablecat jhooks to keep
everything clean and organized. Anything else I should be looking at?
- The current boxes for the phone are normal boxes with a closed back.
This makes it very difficult to pull cables. What are my options for
this? My current plan is to just cut these boxes out (dremel) and then
put in low voltage (no back) retrofit boxes (with the tabs). Either the
carlon or the caddy metal of plastic cut-in rings.
- I am planning on using the Genesis 4978 cat5e cable and 5025b quad
shield rg6. Any other brands I should consider?
- For rg6 termination I am planning on using the compression crimp
connector from platinum and the platinum crimping tool.
Thanks for reading!
-james |
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Ed Nielsen
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:20 am Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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James Russo wrote:
| Quote: | Hello,
I am looking to retrofit my existing single story home with a
structured wiring system. I am looking to install the 42" leviton panel
flush mounted in the laundry room. Most rooms will have 2 cat5e and 2
rg6 cables. Some rooms will have more cables like living room and my
office. These drops will replace the existing daisy chained cat5 for
phone and home run rg6 cable. Some questions I currently have are:
- Will flush mounting the leviton box in a retrofit application be a
problem? I think my studs are not 16" centers (24?) so I was planning on
mounting the box against one stud and then just securing the other side
of the box against a 2x4" secured to the drywall.
- Should I use two color cables to each room? I have mixed feelings on
this one. In most rooms the situation will likely be 1 data and 1 phone
outlet. Pulling two colors make sense for that but would quickly loose
it's meaning as I find the need to reconfigure things. I am planning on
buying 2 boxes of cable to make the pulls eaiser (2 at once).
- Many of the cat5e drops will be for phone, but want the flexibility to
use them for data in the future if needed. I am planning on terminating
all connections with leviton quickport inserts. Should I just terminate
everything with cat5e connectors? Should I use different color inserts?
I've normally always seem orange used for network, but I don't think
there is any standard on this. My concern is what would happen if
someone were to accidently cross over a phone and a network cable. Is
this something I need to worry about?
- In the attic I was planning on using cablecat jhooks to keep
everything clean and organized. Anything else I should be looking at?
- The current boxes for the phone are normal boxes with a closed back.
This makes it very difficult to pull cables. What are my options for
this? My current plan is to just cut these boxes out (dremel) and then
put in low voltage (no back) retrofit boxes (with the tabs). Either the
carlon or the caddy metal of plastic cut-in rings.
- I am planning on using the Genesis 4978 cat5e cable and 5025b quad
shield rg6. Any other brands I should consider?
- For rg6 termination I am planning on using the compression crimp
connector from platinum and the platinum crimping tool.
Thanks for reading!
-james
Personally, I would go with CommScope for the CAT5e and TimesFiber (or |
CommScope) for the RG 6, but Genesis is a good cable.
I'd also use an On Q panel, as it is the only one has CATV stuff built
to S.C.T.E specs.
Glad to read that you're using compression fittings on your coax.
CIAO!
Ed N. |
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James
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:20 am Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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Ed. Thanks for the reply. I will check out the cable you mention. The
genesis cable is what my supplier stocks. I've used it before helping a
friend wire up his house and it seemed to be fine cable. Coleman is the
other cable which is easily available to me.
Are all compression fitting created equal? Are the platinum tools and
fittings of good quality? Again, this is a convience issue being able
to order everything from one place. I haven't seen anyone discuss the
platinum tools compression fittings anywhere, but from what I've read
people say that any compression fitting is better then a crimped
fitting.
What about the wire jacket colors? Is there a benefit of running
seperate colors? I would think one for phone and one for data, but this
usage could change as the usage changes.
What color inserts are people using in residental applications? Do you
typically match the color of the plate or use color coded to the
'typical' application? My concern here again is that the application
could eventually change..
I realize that that colors really don't matter and I can do whatever
floats my boat, I am just curious to hear some other schools of thought
on the issue.
Thanks,
-James
| Quote: | Personally, I would go with CommScope for the CAT5e and TimesFiber (or
CommScope) for the RG 6, but Genesis is a good cable.
I'd also use an On Q panel, as it is the only one has CATV stuff built
to S.C.T.E specs.
Glad to read that you're using compression fittings on your coax. |
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Ed Nielsen
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:09 pm Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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James wrote:
| Quote: | Ed. Thanks for the reply. I will check out the cable you mention. The
genesis cable is what my supplier stocks. I've used it before helping a
friend wire up his house and it seemed to be fine cable. Coleman is the
other cable which is easily available to me.
Are all compression fitting created equal? Are the platinum tools and
fittings of good quality? Again, this is a convience issue being able
to order everything from one place. I haven't seen anyone discuss the
platinum tools compression fittings anywhere, but from what I've read
people say that any compression fitting is better then a crimped
fitting.
|
I can't really say about the lower end fittings, but the higher end ones
used my cable companies are all pretty much the same, spec-wise. The
only fitting target for DIY applications that I can say anything about
is the Zenith branded one. They are made by the same people that make
Digicon.
My personal preferences are PPC (because of its universal use. One
connector for standard, tri, and quad-shield cable), SuperLok (you can
feel it lock as it grips the cable), and Digicon (just a smooth, sweet
fitting to work with. I also really like the little center conductor
guide).
Compression over hex-crimp any day. Return loss is almost double that
of hex-crimp. Uniform characteristic impedance, whereas hex-crimp
creates 6 little points of impedance mismatch. Mismatch leads to
reflections, which can result in standing wave, which results in signal
degradation. That signal degradation can manifest itself in multiple
images, poor sound, or just a lousy picture in general (analog), or
packet loss (digital). I've gone on calls where a small handful of
DirecTV channels were missing. Replaced the hex-crimp fittings and all
was well.
| Quote: | What about the wire jacket colors? Is there a benefit of running
seperate colors? I would think one for phone and one for data, but this
usage could change as the usage changes.
|
Identification purposes only.
I would prefer to keep them separate colors. Sure, there may be some
change as time goes by, but I'd venture to say that after 5 years eighty
percent of your cabling will still be used for its original applications.
If a cable does change usage completely, you could always put some
colored phase tape on the ends.
| Quote: | What color inserts are people using in residental applications? Do you
typically match the color of the plate or use color coded to the
'typical' application? My concern here again is that the application
could eventually change..
|
Inserts can always be changed.
In a home, I prefer to use the same color as the faceplate. Just set a
standard for the home such as voice-left, data-right, CATV left, spare
RG 6-right. You will know if an outlet eventually changes from the
standard you have set.
| Quote: | I realize that that colors really don't matter and I can do whatever
floats my boat, I am just curious to hear some other schools of thought
on the issue.
Thanks,
-James
Personally, I would go with CommScope for the CAT5e and TimesFiber (or
CommScope) for the RG 6, but Genesis is a good cable.
I'd also use an On Q panel, as it is the only one has CATV stuff built
to S.C.T.E specs.
Glad to read that you're using compression fittings on your coax.
|
CIAO!
Ed N. |
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Carl Navarro
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:20 am Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 03:38:36 GMT, James Russo <jr@halo3-nospam.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | The only fitting target for DIY applications that I can say anything about
is the Zenith branded one. They are made by the same people that make
Digicon.
Ok, This is good to know since the local home depot (or maybe it was
lowes) stocks these.
|
Home Dumpo stocks Leviton.
| Quote: |
Identification purposes only.
I would prefer to keep them separate colors. Sure, there may be some
change as time goes by, but I'd venture to say that after 5 years eighty
percent of your cabling will still be used for its original applications.
Depending on your quantity, I'd go with different colors. I usually |
make the voice jack the same color as the faceplate and Orange for
data, although I've also used blue, since my data patch cords are
blue.
| Quote: | So, with that being said use CAT5e inserts all the way around? What is
the risk with someone accidently pluggin in a phone into a switch port
or vice-versa?
|
At the station end, it makes little difference. The center pair of an
ethernet jack is usually grounded in the hub/switch and there's no
voltage there. Likewise, the center pair of a network card has no
connection in the card that I've ever noticed.
In some sysems, plugging a network card into a KSU jack, like a
Panasonic, will shut down the KSU with the short across the data pair.
If you're using 2 landlines, it might be a better idea to absolutely
color code the jacks and maybe consider only 6-pin voice jacks.
Carl Navarro
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James Russo
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:20 am Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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| Quote: | The only fitting target for DIY applications that I can say anything about
is the Zenith branded one. They are made by the same people that make
Digicon.
|
Ok, This is good to know since the local home depot (or maybe it was
lowes) stocks these.
| Quote: | Identification purposes only.
I would prefer to keep them separate colors. Sure, there may be some
change as time goes by, but I'd venture to say that after 5 years eighty
percent of your cabling will still be used for its original applications.
|
So, with that being said use CAT5e inserts all the way around? What is
the risk with someone accidently pluggin in a phone into a switch port
or vice-versa?
-jr |
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James Knott
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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James Russo wrote:
| Quote: | So, with that being said use CAT5e inserts all the way around? What is
the risk with someone accidently pluggin in a phone into a switch port
or vice-versa?
|
The biggest risk, is that you might bend some of the RJ-45 socket wires, by
plugging in an RJ-11 plug. |
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James Russo
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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| Quote: | At the station end, it makes little difference. The center pair of an
ethernet jack is usually grounded in the hub/switch and there's no
voltage there. Likewise, the center pair of a network card has no
connection in the card that I've ever noticed.
|
Ok, so single lines won't matter. That makes sense.
| Quote: | In some sysems, plugging a network card into a KSU jack, like a
Panasonic, will shut down the KSU with the short across the data pair.
If you're using 2 landlines, it might be a better idea to absolutely
color code the jacks and maybe consider only 6-pin voice jacks.
|
Yes, I guess I could just terminate the seperate color to 6 pin voice
jacks to prevent the confusion. If the needs ever changed I could simply
just re-terminate the station end with a cat5e connector and I would be
all set. This might be the best solution and would end up being cheaper
in the begining.
-jr |
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James Russo
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:11 am Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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| Quote: | The biggest risk, is that you might bend some of the RJ-45 socket wires, by
plugging in an RJ-11 plug.
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I always thought you could put a RJ11 into a RJ45 jack no problem. They
aren't designed for this?
-jr |
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James Knott
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:20 am Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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Dale Farmer wrote:
| Quote: | Take a look at the connectors. Notice on the RJ-11, there's plastic
where
the wires are on the RJ-45. That plastic pushes the socket wires up
further than normal. While you may be able to place an RJ-11 plug in an
RJ-45 socket, that wasn't the intended use and there's no lateral support
for the plug.
p.s. Do not send an e-mail for a reply that belongs in the newsgroup.
It will work, but continued use of the mismatched connector will
destroy
the outer two wires of the 8 pin jack. They get bent sideways and
eventually will no longer mate when an 8 pin plug is inserted. Also the
connector is not well seated, and only a moderate sideways force is enough
to yank it out.
|
Isn't that what I said? |
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Dale Farmer
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:20 am Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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James Knott wrote:
| Quote: | James Russo wrote:
The biggest risk, is that you might bend some of the RJ-45 socket wires,
by plugging in an RJ-11 plug.
I always thought you could put a RJ11 into a RJ45 jack no problem. They
aren't designed for this?
-jr
Take a look at the connectors. Notice on the RJ-11, there's plastic where
the wires are on the RJ-45. That plastic pushes the socket wires up
further than normal. While you may be able to place an RJ-11 plug in an
RJ-45 socket, that wasn't the intended use and there's no lateral support
for the plug.
p.s. Do not send an e-mail for a reply that belongs in the newsgroup.
|
It will work, but continued use of the mismatched connector will destroy
the outer two wires of the 8 pin jack. They get bent sideways and eventually
will no longer mate when an 8 pin plug is inserted. Also the connector is
not well seated, and only a moderate sideways force is enough to yank it
out.
--Dale |
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James Knott
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:20 am Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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James Russo wrote:
| Quote: | The biggest risk, is that you might bend some of the RJ-45 socket wires,
by plugging in an RJ-11 plug.
I always thought you could put a RJ11 into a RJ45 jack no problem. They
aren't designed for this?
-jr
|
Take a look at the connectors. Notice on the RJ-11, there's plastic where
the wires are on the RJ-45. That plastic pushes the socket wires up
further than normal. While you may be able to place an RJ-11 plug in an
RJ-45 socket, that wasn't the intended use and there's no lateral support
for the plug.
p.s. Do not send an e-mail for a reply that belongs in the newsgroup. |
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Dale Farmer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:45 am Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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James Knott wrote:
| Quote: | Dale Farmer wrote:
Take a look at the connectors. Notice on the RJ-11, there's plastic
where
the wires are on the RJ-45. That plastic pushes the socket wires up
further than normal. While you may be able to place an RJ-11 plug in an
RJ-45 socket, that wasn't the intended use and there's no lateral support
for the plug.
p.s. Do not send an e-mail for a reply that belongs in the newsgroup.
It will work, but continued use of the mismatched connector will
destroy
the outer two wires of the 8 pin jack. They get bent sideways and
eventually will no longer mate when an 8 pin plug is inserted. Also the
connector is not well seated, and only a moderate sideways force is enough
to yank it out.
Isn't that what I said?
|
Yes, but not in plain english.
--Dale |
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Doug McIntyre
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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James Russo <jr@halo3-nospam.net> writes:
| Quote: | The biggest risk, is that you might bend some of the RJ-45 socket wires, by
plugging in an RJ-11 plug.
I always thought you could put a RJ11 into a RJ45 jack no problem. They
aren't designed for this?
|
The outer two pins get bent up from the plastic on the sides of the RJ11.
Enough so that applications I've seen switch from 6pin to 8pin have
had poor contact with pin 1 after only 6 months of use of the RJ45
jack with an RJ11 plug and then switching to an RJ45 application.
Either get in there with something to bend the contact wire back down
or replace the jack.
I dislike the trend to do voice on 8pin jacks myself. I'd prefer to
put in 6pin jacks for voice applications. I have to support some users
in apartments that were wired up for voice and data. Same color for
the jacks, all 8pin jacks. Only differentiation is that the labels
(which are peeling/falling off) are v-# for voice and d-# for data.
users have no idea what that means, nor where to plug their phone in,
where to plug their computers in. I bought some 6pin cheap jacks a
while back, and they were even 8pos with 6 wires. Bah. |
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James Russo
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject:
Re: retrofit home with structured wiring.. |
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| Quote: | I dislike the trend to do voice on 8pin jacks myself. I'd prefer to
put in 6pin jacks for voice applications. I have to support some users
in apartments that were wired up for voice and data. Same color for
the jacks, all 8pin jacks. Only differentiation is that the labels
(which are peeling/falling off) are v-# for voice and d-# for data.
users have no idea what that means, nor where to plug their phone in,
where to plug their computers in. I bought some 6pin cheap jacks a
while back, and they were even 8pos with 6 wires. Bah.
|
It might make more sense for me to do 6pin voice-grade jacks for where
you need voice and then one cat5 port. All the wire is cat5 though. If
my needs ever change just re-terminate the station side and i'll be all set.
-jr |
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